Product: FinTech in 2030! Mastering Product Innovation for the Metaverse & Alpha Generation” | Pawel Stezycki, Senior Fintech & Banking Consultant at Netguru

Monica Millares: [: 00:00:00

Pawel Stezycki: Thanks. Thanks for having me here. I'm also looking forward to it. It's also incredible to connect with the other part of the world, just like that sitting somewhere at the lake and then talking to you somewhere in Southeast Asia.

Monica Millares: Yes. And before we go into full FinTech and product exciting conversations, first, I want to ask you two questions just to get to know you a little bit on more on the personal side. So what is your definition of success?

success would have, would be [: 00:01:00

So some people define success as being extremely successful in one area and they're probably the best on the planet doing that. I would say having a right balance by work, people that I like to do, more or less changing that. So yeah, controlling that radar of your personal and business career, that would be a success.

Hmm.

Monica Millares: Yes, it's important that it's not just career. It has to be personal life too. So talking about careers, if you look back at your career, what is the advice you wish someone gave you at the beginning of your career? Yeah, I,

esn't really make much sense [: 00:02:00

I wish I got this advice to focus on industries and jobs and opportunities that have a good future ahead. If you look at the industry that's growing in five, 10 years time, bet on it, bet on the industries that will support your growth because they're growing too. That's the best advice I, would say we can.

Get I know some people who get too focused on industry, which is stagnant. And then it's really hard to achieve there

and talk to adults. Not the people in your age, because they haven't seen what lies in front of you.

hat's very helpful. Okay. So [: 00:03:00

Pawel Stezycki: Yeah, , I would say three things. You make an impact in industry where there is demand, right? So there are countries and areas in the world when there is still a huge demand for services. You get underserved customers. There are pain points, you know, needs that needs to be solved. So, go there and you'll make an impact.

on't need fintech. They need [: 00:04:00

Or sometimes to buy things, right? So, consider partnerships and that's good with open finance becoming more and more of things. So grow together with partners. And then hopefully look in longer perspective, because in the longer perspective, there might be a. Bigger impact. Sometimes Fintechs, they are too focused on this one year short perspective and they go, go, go up fast and then they go down and then they go up.

So maybe less of a bumpy road, more consistent

Monica Millares: growth.

I love that as a concept. And I think it's like, you nailed it. It's a good point. We as Fintechs are focused on the short term because we need to survive. That's it. Yep. So maybe a little bit of perspective into long term thinking will also help the industry, but it doesn't take away the fact that we need to survive.

a good challenge for all of [: 00:05:00

Pawel Stezycki: Well, I guess it's a longer story, but it started with research. Like more than 15 years ago, I would work in research, but like a. Proper research, you know, the user, not so much user testing back then, but exploring products, market segments, mostly with new technologies. So for instance, we would test digital TV before there was Netflix, right?

So we would test, we would actually test the contactless cards, which was kind of funny because no one used contactless 15 years. We'll talk to the users. We will work with Visa and then get feedback from people who started using cards and they didn't want that. I mean, they said, why should we use that contactless?

ds, put in the card. So that [: 00:06:00

Yeah. Do they want contactless payments? Well, why should I? So I started with research, then I went to research in R& D with Citibank for some time where we work on new products for Citi, and then I moved more into not only research, but also design, product design. And I set up a lab, innovation lab in a Polish bank and we would test and design new products for different markets, not only Poland, work with fintechs trying to innovate in number of ways to add value to the product in consumer or SME [00:07:00] banking. And at some point I moved on to digital.

Consultancy, which is Netguru, mostly, where I support products for clients all over the world, mostly in EMEA, where we design, help to create. Digital products, apps, or neobanks or payment solutions, or also like we also do for retail. Sometimes there is a greater component in financial component in retail.

So long story short, it started with research when I added design and product design. And right now I'm working in an IT consultancy.

ve that makes it like a very [: 00:08:00

As in, you're close to customers, but at the same time, it's like, remember the big picture.

Pawel Stezycki: There is a business perspective within each product. Actually, initially I graduated the business administration. So... There is a customer perspective, but to make it a business case, you need to obviously look at how this product will deliver value to the company and to the stakeholders. So it's useful to some extent to look at this very Detailed use case insights from the users.

I don't know, people being happy to see that their kids are starting to use some learning with their mobile banking app or something like that. But then the big picture, obviously, if you. In this case, would be having a strategy for building a future base of users, kids of current parents using banking services.

So there's always, there is [: 00:09:00

Monica Millares: Yeah. And then just to build on that recently you did a keynote that was titled future users of financial services, Horizon 2013 EMEA, which basically it's elaborating what you're talking about kids, right? Like. The kids today are the future users. I found that like fascinating because like, I think at least myself and people who are in the trenches in FinTech, like we said at the beginning, we're very focused on day to day rather than 2030.

2030 seems so far away, but you have done that work. Can you guide us through the, how did you go about identifying what will be The next thing in demand, what's the opportunity like, can you go to spread your thinking process?

Pawel Stezycki: Sure, I like this approach. I mean, it's like natural for all of us to be focused on daily work.

There is I think it's [: 00:10:00

The board members look into that strategy teams look into that. And then there is this five plus 10 years perspective, which is more of a job for innovation labs to think of that perspective. And in that 10 years perspective, I mean, it can still seem crazy, but it's possible that there's going to be a change that will mess up your business.

d to be in this place in the [: 00:11:00

Five years time. That's 510 years time. It might be a little tricky. I mean, I like to take this step back and use this perspective. Sometimes that's a couple of sources of information. Number of be known consulting companies provide you with these reports. Obviously, some of that is overestimated. But if you look on the whole ads, Yeah.

some things will grow in one [: 00:12:00

Some people just, they have this sense, drive to make business better. If you provide them with funding, with financing, they will grow their businesses, which makes total sense both for them and whoever is providing them the money. It's a question, obviously, which of the people are worth to be provided with the money, but we'll have more tech for that.

look for financial services [: 00:13:00

So if you combine all these trends or changes, it's pretty safe, but we see more and more companies offering SME solutions to clients, to people in these countries. And like I said, digital consultancy, being a number of early

startups, we also see that demand, you know, rising. So this also helps me to make a judgment. So yeah, a couple of perspectives and trying to make a sense of these data source.

tion. So. What do you think? [: 00:14:00

So. Let's start with the Middle East and Africa. What are the pain points that you see that are underserved that something like Open Finance can help with?

Pawel Stezycki: I mean, there are many countries, they differ, but in very general, I would say that this thing that I mentioned having underserved communities,

f these countries are trying [: 00:15:00

You had the podcast a few days back on Open Finance, and it was great to listen to it and have it. explain, so the open finance is also about making data available to build new services.

And it's an opportunity, especially, I guess, in Saudi Arabia, they're pushing really hard on that to make. Finance financial services available to other companies to think back to startups to

and the cost of them is high [: 00:16:00

Well, economy will thrive, new companies will be set up and will leverage. Underserved communities, as I said, that's it's also a moral issue because if you think of the people who don't, in first place, they have little money, but then on top of it, they are not able to store this money securely.

Especially in some, countries it also impacts women. For instance, in Pakistan, I think that one in 20 women has access to financial services. This means that 19 are dependent on someone else. That's huge. Like, to, to have an account where you can safely store your money, right? So if you cannot safely store your money then you just will just ask your husband or you need to hide that somewhere.

So, yeah. Yes. Try to. [: 00:17:00

it's been decreasing, but it's still like more than a billion.

Yeah, it is a systemic problem, but fintechs are solving that, right? If you look, you know, many countries that, progress is driven by fintechs. I see that in Africa where. Fintechs are improving the access to financial services for different communities, which is great.

I mean, they still make a money on it. It's business, but it's also big picture, I would say is positive.

Monica Millares: Yes. [: 00:18:00

And we need to start thinking about them now for when they are like old teenagers slash early adults. What can you tell us about them?

Pawel Stezycki: I've learned that future generations, they're way more open to new things that we will deliver, create, and build. So it's always good to have them as a, well, to some extent, North star, what's going to be in demand in the future.

general products, Snapchat, [: 00:19:00

Like if you're eight, 10 years old, you don't use much of financial services. Although banks have quite recently noticed that it's an important segment both for the future and for the parents, those banking parents have but that's about trying to engage kids. In a similar way as they, as it used to be in the past.

hey're going to be doing the [: 00:20:00

And looking at people who are right now sometimes called alpha generation, really young, early teenagers, well, they, have different habits. For instance metaverse, metaverse is considered one of the potential big game changers in terms of communication channels, digital services. You might have heard that well, Facebook is no longer Facebook.

nformed, but Sometimes they, [: 00:21:00

But that metaverse thing is something I consider should be regarded as potential changes for payment industry, for finance industry. And it's not only me. I mean, official, for instance, that HSBC, a super old traditional bank, the biggest bank in Europe. They have this Horizon 3 perspective, 5 10 years, and metaverse is on the radar.

I'll share a story with you.[: 00:22:00

So once I went to my daughter's room to get something and I see she's spending time in Roblox. That's like Minecraft or something like similar, an environment when you use avatars to interact with other people, and they are having a bonfire. And I was like, what are you guys doing? Like, , it doesn't make sense.

So

Monica Millares: it's a bonfire of avatars.

Pawel Stezycki: Yeah. Avatars sitting around the fireplace and having this grilling sausages . And I asked her like, what are you doing? Who are you sitting there with? Well, I'm sitting there with John, Patrick and Maya, who I met on camping last summer and we were having bonfire then on camping.

think of it, if this happens [: 00:23:00

So these channels interact. If metaverse will be another channel that's going to be important for these new generations. And they're already doing it. So maybe they'll be buying things in that metaverse. These could be digital things and they need to store them and they need to pay for them somewhat.

And actually they're making money. You can make money in Roblox. You can make games and make people, there's a creator economy. So it's like, there's going to be economy inside these metaverse platforms. And if there is economy, guess what? I mean, it needs financial services.

So that's going to be a thing,

rms, . So who could sell the [: 00:24:00

Pawel Stezycki: Well, the big question is if this platform is an open economy or a closed economy, because we can have a model.

Yeah, where you just have.

Mike can pay for everything and it's closed. He can't, the company can control the money, the coins or wherever it's used. Or it can be open. So it's interchangeable. You can. By, for instance, close in one creates things or digital close, close, or any type of assets in that platform game. And then perhaps you can trade it.

uld be selling them here. Or [: 00:25:00

Minecraft, wherever it comes, right? So it could be interesting

Monica Millares: what they're saying is in a distant future, let's say five to 10 years time, instead of me recording the podcast, like we're doing, we could meet in the metaverse and then I could buy my outfit for the metaverse. And then not only I could do that, but let's say if I buy that blouse, I could buy the digital twin of the blouse so that I can wear that in my interview.

That's kind of cool. Yeah.

Pawel Stezycki: Maybe it's, we'll start

Monica Millares: the other way. Effective and if it's cost effective, but it's kind of cool, but

Pawel Stezycki: the other way, I mean, because initially I've been thinking that you'll be buying proper shoes and then getting like a digital twin of the district, but maybe it's going to work the other way around.

You'll go, we'll go meet on [: 00:26:00

Monica Millares: Oh, I love that. Yeah. You just expanded our brains. Thank you, Pavel. Okay. So that was about the future of financial services and some things that we need to think about.

r process of finding what is [: 00:27:00

Pawel Stezycki: So having that background I mentioned in research, I would say I'm I'm pretty heavy leaning on the research methods to look for competitive advantage. So what are the expectations? What areas are covered by players on the market and then looking for free spots and opportunities that you could. Try to address, but saying that, I also want to refer back to what I mentioned about reading what the users want, not necessarily directly what they want, but finding the bigger value.

safe, secure ways of paying. [: 00:28:00

Under underlying needs they have, and then making this creative, great part of the job descriptions that we do, creating product, being creative and finding a way technologies to address that client demands, client need, they mentioned.

Monica Millares: Thank you, Pavel. As product people, like one of our jobs is to create a culture of innovation, to come up with new ideas, different perspectives, to be open minded. How do we go about creating that culture and creating that mindset across the organization? What's your secret sauce?

art that I've learned can be [: 00:29:00

Hmm. Like, and I've been in this role trying to build, improve innovation in well established companies. You need to be humble about the people who are already here. Perhaps you need to change their way of thinking, but this does not entitle you to, show a hint that you, don't have respect for what have they been doing?

Like the worst thing that can happen. And it does happen. Literally. I've seen it happen. You can close your innovation team in a. Crystal tower, you know, in a super innovative lab and expect that it's going to transform the company. And I would say that it's the last thing that will work.

open minded thinking. Future [: 00:30:00

So I would say that my secret sauce, what I would encourage is to inject these skills, methodologies, approach as in as many as possible parts of the company and push people to work together on various workshops, planning, and moving forward with the product.

innovating, even if you know [: 00:31:00

Monica Millares: I love that. And I think I haven't heard that perspective. When we talk about innovation, it's like, oh yeah, this methodology, be open minded, try this, iterate this, the other.

Pawel Stezycki: We can't, we do it, we have this great idea, we'll change it. And then first of all, even if you're right, you're not building supporters for your idea with that approach, people will be pushed back.

And you don't want this, obviously, teams change the world, not individuals. Plus, you may be missing out something. I mean, the people who has been for longer, maybe they know this is not possible because I don't know, there is some regulation that will mess up your whole idea. And then you can make full out of yourself.

Monica Millares: Yeah. I think that's a key message. It hits strong, like just be humble and then basically work together. In that environment.

wel Stezycki: Yeah. I wonder [: 00:32:00

It's easier to, be humble and have respect for people who've been there longer. And some are just like, Hey, we're going to change this, dum, dum, dum. And then you can end up with total mess. Like you take over a huge social media company and six months later, it's a mess, right? And you need to change his name.

Monica Millares: Yeah, that is very true. Well, it's different culture, different approaches, different leaders and personalities, which talking about different, that takes me to diversity, which is so important, especially when it comes to building product and innovation. Well, and to me for everything what do you think are the practical actions that we can take as an industry to make it better and like for.

women, minorities, and to have more diversity.

Pawel Stezycki: So to say [: 00:33:00

I I do recommend that one. And they were looking into some data as for diversity in particular diversity and supporting, well, different approach to moms and dads when they're working. So this scientist in us, she sent out. Email message to thousands of schools in the US asking them to contact, I mean, she pretended that she, the parents are sending the email and they were asking school to contact, to call them back.

Mary or like to, dad and to [: 00:34:00

Yeah, so it turned out that I think 40% of more often mom would be called. And they they pointed out that moms get. Distracted more often by the system and also for dads, it's easier to work professionally and have kids because they have fewer distractions and it's , so I would say maybe I think something new to the diversity discussion and consider like, aren't you treating.

go home early and take care [: 00:35:00

Maybe you want to go home and take care of your kid. So yeah, parenthood is something that may make a difference. And maybe it's good to consider when you're planning your diversity approach.

Monica Millares: I absolutely love that approach, Pavel. Thank you. , I think it's a very practical thing to do reconsider your parenthood approach in the workplace and how you treat women and men different because of gender when it comes to parenthood slash motherhood. That's a big lesson.

Pawel Stezycki: They both have kids usually, right?

There's a mom and dad in most of the cases. So both of them would be treated the same way.

Yes.

Monica Millares: I [: 00:36:00

Pawel Stezycki: NetGuru? Well as for NetGuru, we have a great website and it's the best place to learn what we are doing. For myself. The best way to find me is obviously LinkedIn.

I try to make it interesting, share some thoughts about technology, financial services, but not in a boring way. So every couple of days I share some posts, sometimes articles. Please follow me. Let me know if you like to reach out or have some questions. I love meeting people and in social media on LinkedIn and having some discussions.

ations the future of banking [: 00:37:00