How Neobanks Can Use Bitcoin & Stablecoins for Competitive Advantage | Richard Green, RootstockLabs

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How can a neobanks strategically integrate Bitcoin and stable coins

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to create a competitive advantage?

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Meet Richard Green.

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He leads go-to market for strategic

partnerships and the growth

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across the Rootstock ecosystem.

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Rootstock Labs is the largest and

longest running Bitcoin side chain.

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In this episode, we have a

masterclass on stable coins.

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We cover cost considerations, user

experience, challenges, security and

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fraud protection, partnership selection

strategies, and Richard's three key

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takeaways for Neobank founders ready

to integrate crypto infrastructure.

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Speaker 3: Most overlooked aspects

is that you look in what, or you look

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at stable coins in isolation, or you

look at Bitcoin in isolation versus

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what it brings as a, a true whole

pro programmable financial layer.

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To finance, to neobank

and things like that.

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The biggest is obviously

global payments remittances.

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Why is that so successful?

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Well, it goes back to that point

we were speaking about earlier.

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So those are the kind of two advantages.

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The, the lower costs really impacts

more at the international level.

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So if you look at the US to Africa,

that is a difficult payment corridor

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from, for a multitude of reasons.

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And what stable coins can do is they

can keep that as the same price as a.

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You know, a very highly used

and active corridor itself.

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Building a little bit of Bitcoin into

the, the conversation was you can then

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do things as a business or as a user.

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Treasury management predict

my cash flows into the future

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management working capital.

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Speaker 4: Hey, before we dive in,

can I please ask you her a big favor?

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Speaker 5: So this week's episode, we

are going to answer a key question that

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is very relevant for the industry, which

is how can a neobanks strategically

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integrate Bitcoin and stable coins

to create a competitive advantage

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so now everybody's talking

about stable coins basically.

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And for Neobanks, there's three

things that we struggled all the time.

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How do we differentiate, how do we

maintain or reduce opex as we scale?

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And how do we hit profitability?

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And now it's like the new kit in

the block this year is STABLECOINS.

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Even though it's not a

new technology, it's.

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Rapidly being adopted into

the FinTech space this year.

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So it's like something to,

to look at at the moment.

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So I would love to start with, you have

a very interesting background because

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basically you've covered from traditional

finance to also kind of, uh, working

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in circle Bitcoin infrastructure.

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So you have the holistic view.

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So what do you think is the.

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Most competitive advantage studies

overlooked by Neobanks when it comes

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to Bitcoin and well, not bitcoin when

it comes to crypto and stable coins.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I I, I, I think you're

absolutely right when you talk about

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stable coins, being I the new kid on the

block, but, but not so, I mean, it's,

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we've seen a huge amount movement, whether

it be position or whether it be pick in,

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in market cap of, of stable coins, but I.

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The most overlooked and respect is

that you look in what are, you look

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at stable coins in installation or you

look at Bitcoin and isolation versus

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what it brings as a, a true whole pro

programmable financial to finance,

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to neobank and things like that.

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It obviously reduces in terms of

transactions, in terms of moving

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money across borders and things

like that, blockchains, but what

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it also does alongside them.

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A whole programmable land where things

can be done automatically, things

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can be done across borders of uc.

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Obviously with Stripe opening up 101

accounts, you know, you look at the

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biggest banks in the world and there

maybe in 60 or 90 countries, and then.

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I'm not saying it's an easy flip

of the switch, but in a relatively

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easy one through acquisition, they,

they've turned bridge and so looking

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at it holistically is a lot different.

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Um, and then looking at it in the

ways that it can open up, not just,

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um, the the cost, but also it's 24 7.

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Um, I saw recently that I think

$13 billion were transacted

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over a weekend, right?

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So you look at traditional.

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Speaker 7: That

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Speaker 6: is not really possible.

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And on a normal weekday, it's

something like 24 billion.

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So you can really get into that

24 7 mindset and you can kind

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of constant continuously do it.

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And then when you look a little layer

deeper, you look at it not just from

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the cost savings perspective, but

somebody maybe transmitting money.

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You look at it from a cost

savings perspective of, um,

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Speaker 7: for

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Speaker 6: infrastructure

that's needed for.

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Gone are the days where you have to

spend 80% of a budget on building

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an internal infrastructure for

payments, for moving money around.

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You can really buy, either buy it in

or you can obviously make use of the

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things that are, such as the blockchain

technology, the stable coins that

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are already issued, Bitcoin that has

been around for, you know, number of.

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Trustworthy assets out there, and

it's all known where we're talking

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about it a lot more is becoming

a lot more of a plug and play.

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A plug and play.

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And then I think the final thing

on it is just you are looking

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forward at future proofing.

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This is in the same, in the same way

that you would look at saying, okay.

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When the internet was coming

around, what are things gonna

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be happening with the internet?

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Okay, well, with um, ai, what are

we doing to pan into the future?

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This is also saying, well, actually

the technology that is there is moving,

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moving money at the speed of the internet.

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It's, you know, the H-D-T-P-S

stay is the email that is to go,

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well, this technology is there.

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It's just about making sure that even if

I'm not looking for the, let's say, the

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stereotypical uses of stable coins or

Bitcoin or what's the actual technology

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on the line can utilize to build,

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Speaker 5: I love that as a.

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Opening statement because at some point

you said it obviously saves us time.

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And I was like, it obviously saves

us time in the, in the mind of

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someone who's embedded, you know,

and looks at this and understands it.

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But there's many people within the

industry that are still catching

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up on what are the benefits, right?

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And then it's like.

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That that caught my attention as you

were saying that, but at the same

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time, you finished like in a very nice

way that it's like we can move money

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at the speed of basically internet.

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It, it's just

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Speaker 6: great.

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It it is and, and it's, and it's a

great point you raised in the sense

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of it's becoming, I'm sure we'll

definitely touch on this later on as

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one of probably the, the downsides of

the world of crypto and the world of

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stable coins that people live in world.

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And then when they try and move

into a world of traditional

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finance, neobank, that's one of

the problems with crypto, right?

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They build for crypto and

then they say, well, why isn't

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this, why isn't this happening?

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So, no, I think that when I say.

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Reduces time.

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Again, I'm sure we'll do go into this,

but it is, you look at the ways the

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money is moved at the moment, and

there's some amazing ways that it is.

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You look at picks in Brazil, you look

at essa, you look at Relu, they, they

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can move money instantaneously and so

it, it's a, it's, it's about explaining

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and understanding, well, if it's outside

of those maybe internal networks,

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where do the actual benefits come from?

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Speaker 5: So let's start

then with the basics, right?

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Let's, let's go straight

back to the basics.

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What, basically, what are stable

coins and what's the difference

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between stable coins and bitcoin?

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But I think that's a big difference.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely.

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So I think, so stable coins

are digital, digital dollars.

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I'm gonna call them digital dollars.

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And there's a reason I'm gonna call them

digital dollars because 99% of the stable

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coins that are transacted are in dollar.

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There are other stable coins out

there in different fiat currencies

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year round and things like that.

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But the vast majority is in in dollar.

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And those are.

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To stable.

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Stable, which is the so,

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so significant market

cap, kind of 200 billion

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increasing over time.

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The difference between that and

Bitcoin, whether I think a lot of

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people do is, is one is digital

cash and one is Digi digital Gold.

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I think Bitcoin has often been reviewed

to as digital gold because of those

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people who are holding, or ling, if you

are, if you're in the crypto industry

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and they view it as a store of value,

they view Bitcoin as, let's say, an

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inflation hedge in certain ways and

something that will increase in value

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over time, whereas stable coins.

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It's about, well, what am I paying?

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What am I using that to pay for?

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What is the actual, if I'm gonna

a shop am I transacting with?

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So whilst you still see people, and we

work with people at Rootstock trying to

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set ways to pay with Bitcoin and find

utility in Bitcoin, and, and again,

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that's, that's a big discussion point.

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You'll see that it is mainly this view

of digital cash to use and spend and

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digital gold to hold and use as well.

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Speaker 5: I love that analogy.

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Digital cash, digital

gold to hold to, yes.

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Yeah.

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And then, yeah, because then it's a,

you mentioned utility, and I think

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that's part of the, the, the thing that

needs clarity in people's minds, that

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it's like, what's the utility of this?

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So just to make it very practical.

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What would be two to three use cases that,

let's say if I work in a, in a neobank,

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in FinTech, what are the use cases that

are like actually real use cases that

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we can, we can use with stable coins?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, so for stable

coins, the biggest, and probably

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the one that you hear about the

most is obviously global payments,

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remittances and things like that.

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And, and why is that so successful?

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Well, it goes back to that point

we were speaking about earlier of,

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of how Stripe can open 101 account

across a hundred accounts, across 101

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countries very easily, so that you are

creating borderless finance, right?

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I.

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Payment domestically, instantaneous.

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It is instantaneous globally, and so there

are no borders anymore within that space.

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And so as a neo, obviously if you are

considering either domestic or branching

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out for both retail and business,

that's what stable coins can do.

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So it.

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At a lower cost.

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Um, so those are the

kind of two advantages.

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The, the lower cost really impact more at

the international level when you, you can

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look at the other, um, more traditional

remittance companies, the wises and,

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and, and those kinds of players.

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And they still offer super

low, um, transfer fees in.

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I think the, the, the areas

where a real use case comes in

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is where it's two corridors that

are more difficult to reach.

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So if you look at the US to Africa,

that is a difficult payment corridor

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from, for multitude of reasons.

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And what stable coins can do is

they can keep that as the same

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price as a, you know, a very highly

used and active corridor itself.

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So global payments and remittances

for Absolutely, uh, for certain.

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Um, building a little bit of Bitcoin

into the, the conversation as well.

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With this, the, the other use case

is not, it's not just sending, it's

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also about holding, and that sits

with both Bitcoin and stable coins.

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So if I'm holding stable coins,

if I'm holding Bitcoin, especially

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in high inflation economies,

why is that good for me?

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Well, I've access in a number

of, in American countries.

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But if you have access to a stable

coin, you are inflation hedged.

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If you have access to

Bitcoin, you are as well.

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You are exposed to another potentially

volatile currency, but you are

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hedged against that inflation.

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So you can then do things

as a business or as a user.

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Which obviously, so if you are

providing that store value, then as

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a neobank I can go, okay, well what

am I doing from treasury management?

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What am I doing to be able to predict

my cash flows into the future?

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What am I able to be doing in

terms of my working capital?

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I can manage all of those

different things, and so.

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From two use cases there.

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And then if you go a little bit further

into what stable coins and Bitcoin

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is obviously useful is it's, it's the

gateway to, to defi decentralize finance.

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It's the gateway to Web3 if

you are thinking about, okay.

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I want my users to be able to

access yield on their, uh, currency.

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So let's say you're a US dollar account,

or then moving into USD, uh, USDC or

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USDT, then within the decentralized

finance world, you can get access to yield

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that is offering four, five, 6% return.

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And so again, you're thinking

about what can I be adding on?

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Three real use cases, obviously

around remittance, kind of, um,

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holding and then actually defi space.

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And there, there are, there are countless.

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Um, and it's all really about if

is you as a business, where do

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you see the gap in your country?

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Is it that there are a lot of

gig workers in the country?

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Is it.

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What, what works within that?

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Okay, well, we can give them access to

inflation protected currency, or we can

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give them access to, they're all sending

money saying we're receiving money.

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And that's where it can be built into.

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Speaker 5: I like that because then we're

bringing it back to the people message.

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Um, coming back to the remittances,

the cross border one, because it,

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it, it's like, it's like spot on.

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Malaysia, Indonesia, there are

countries that there's a lot of,

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uh, international movement as such.

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So the how most, uh, neobanks or

FinTech, even banks work today.

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It's like, Hey, you have FinTech a and

then there's a remittances aggregator,

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and then we just connect with them.

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Yeah.

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So in how good we, how

do we bring it to life?

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If we were to say, Hey, now we want to.

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To do remittance is via stable coins.

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I have, I have my understanding, but I,

I don't want to cloud the conversation.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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So it, so there's two ways these,

where do stable coins come from?

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Stablecoin come from stablecoin, issuers.

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And who are those Issuers?

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Circle is one and Tether as

the other, as the two largest.

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You've obviously then got other issuers.

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Cbd, cs, which is the government based,

and then you've got yield bearing ones,

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which are kind of coming in prominence.

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But what is the actual flow to do it?

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Well, you, you need to

first get the stable coin.

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Um, and you can do that by either

being a primary, let's say mint

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or redeemer of the coin, as in I

go to circle, I set up an account

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with them and I want to be able to.

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I have that, but in many cases can just

do it via setting up an API or via a desk

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that goes onto centralized exchanges.

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These, uh, stable coins are active with

highly traded on centralized exchanges.

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So as your users are requesting

stable coins or whoever is requesting

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stable coins, you obviously

go into the secondary market.

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So once you have the stable coin,

it's obviously relatively simple.

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Speaker 7: What

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Speaker 6: you do is it, you sit

in your infrastructure to a wallet

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and that that person will hold.

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That is a very simple ecosystem because

once it is, whilst it is in that

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ecosystem, it is on chain blockchain.

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It is within stable coins or bitcoin.

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If I send to you and you

can receive it, great.

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It can just pass P two p Super simple

like a traditional internal, uh, system.

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The, the, the complexity comes

when you are looking to on and

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off ramp to stable coins and that.

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If we were to have had this conversation

a year or so ago, it would've been a

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very different conversation because

there were not many, I would say global

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of people being able to, providers

being able to bring currency on,

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fear, currency on, and then also take.

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That was much better.

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If you look obviously, like again, the,

the Stripe Bridge acquisition, that is

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an infrastructure with on and off Ramps.

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Moon Pay recently acquired a company

called Iron and you are, you are seeing

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more of these coming to fruition, so.

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You can plug and play quite easily

into these kinds of providers where

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they can bring your local fiat

currency on and they can take it off.

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Um, however, there is also then your

KYC requirements, um, that is due to

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local market and that is something that

also can be a little bit more difficult

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because you're starting to interact with.

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So it is decentralized by

nature, what K-Y-C-K-Y-B can you

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do in a permissionless world?

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But there are some great kind of providers

out there, um, that fit in within that

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: 00:18:45

space, not just on the KYB side, but

um, that like travel role regulation,

303

: 00:18:51

um, number infrastructure providers.

304

: 00:18:55

It is a, it is a really easy setup

whilst you are in the world of stable

305

: 00:19:00

coins and whilst you're in the on

chain space, more difficult side.

306

: 00:19:04

But I think that this is gonna

be the inflection points of

307

: 00:19:07

where you see stable coins.

308

: 00:19:08

Just moving from 200, two 50

billion market cap to 500 billion

309

: 00:19:15

is where all stays on chain.

310

: 00:19:16

Because if I send money to yourself

who's in Malaysia, you might say, well,

311

: 00:19:21

actually I want take local currency.

312

: 00:19:24

But hopefully there'll come a time

when you don't need to take that

313

: 00:19:27

out, because that is accepted at

Merchants, that is accepted, you know,

314

: 00:19:32

by, by any, uh, provider you might

be doing or any business that you.

315

: 00:19:37

And so we're kind of at a halfway

house in the middle where you are,

316

: 00:19:42

where we're between full adoption.

317

: 00:19:46

But beyond that point of saying, well,

actually we're just trying to bring

318

: 00:19:50

in crypto native users into the space.

319

: 00:19:52

Um, so it's, it's, um.

320

: 00:19:57

It's a great place to be at at the

moment because where you can also

321

: 00:20:01

start to see as a, as a neo or as a

business of any, there are options

322

: 00:20:05

and there are people who are, who are

guiding you through all of these things.

323

: 00:20:08

Any sense?

324

: 00:20:09

Speaker 5: Yes.

325

: 00:20:10

Yes.

326

: 00:20:10

And, and it's, uh, I love the, the.

327

: 00:20:16

It's not even the concept, but the world

where, like you say right now, stable

328

: 00:20:20

coins are still for a few people, right?

329

: 00:20:23

And therefore, that's why you need to

convert them into your local current.

330

: 00:20:26

Let's say you send me stablecoin right

now, if I'm based in Malaysia and I

331

: 00:20:30

want to use that money, I cannot in

my day-to-day life, but it will be

332

: 00:20:36

cool when, and I'm scanning around

QR payments and now I just select to

333

: 00:20:42

pay with Malaysia, bring it, or with.

334

: 00:20:45

Something else.

335

: 00:20:45

Yeah.

336

: 00:20:46

Speaker 6: Yeah.

337

: 00:20:47

And I don't think that's far away.

338

: 00:20:48

Right.

339

: 00:20:48

Visa are very active in this space, made

a, I think a strategic investment into.

340

: 00:20:57

Again, a serious infrastructure provider

within the space and issuing costs.

341

: 00:21:03

Stable coin cards, issuing stable coin

cards, and so who are, uh, kind of a

342

: 00:21:10

neobank within the space issuing cards.

343

: 00:21:12

And so it isn't, it isn't

too far, I think, where the

344

: 00:21:18

traditional roots are being built

and are being built well to be.

345

: 00:21:25

Some, um, resistance or I would say

friction actually at the user level

346

: 00:21:31

of, let's say merchant payments.

347

: 00:21:33

When I.

348

: 00:21:38

There are then still high fees on the

tapping of the card with stable coins.

349

: 00:21:43

That's, it's kind of like you

imagine on the stable coin,

350

: 00:21:46

issuers are at the center.

351

: 00:21:47

They've got that, they've got that sorted,

the on and off ramps coming down and

352

: 00:21:50

the tentacles, they've got that sorted.

353

: 00:21:52

And then it's branching out again into

other spaces of what do I do when I

354

: 00:21:57

get to that level and get to that use.

355

: 00:21:59

But that will, that will come.

356

: 00:22:00

Um, and it's great that the, the

kind of, the infrastructure is

357

: 00:22:02

being built that way out with huge

players like Visa in the space.

358

: 00:22:08

Speaker 5: I want to expand on

that because you, you read my

359

: 00:22:10

mind when you mentioned cost.

360

: 00:22:12

I was like, wait, this is a podcast.

361

: 00:22:14

Right?

362

: 00:22:14

But if we were at work and this was

like a work conversation at this point,

363

: 00:22:20

I could have been like, hi Richard.

364

: 00:22:22

All these sounds really

good, but let's get into it.

365

: 00:22:26

You know, it's, uh, what's the

cost before we go deeper in it?

366

: 00:22:29

That's, that's what have come into my

mind if this was work rather than podcast.

367

: 00:22:32

Yeah.

368

: 00:22:33

Speaker 6: So let's answer

369

: 00:22:34

Speaker 5: that question.

370

: 00:22:35

Speaker 6: Yeah, abso, absolutely.

371

: 00:22:36

Yeah.

372

: 00:22:37

And I think the, the, the, the

neobank that we speak with, um, and

373

: 00:22:43

I've spoken with in the past, the

cost, if you look at those startups,

374

: 00:22:47

I would say vast percentage of

that business is compliance teams.

375

: 00:22:52

And they are spending a large

amount of on building out

376

: 00:22:57

compliance teams, whether they are.

377

: 00:23:00

Custodial or self custodial.

378

: 00:23:03

These are two different models

within the stable coin space

379

: 00:23:06

and within the defi space.

380

: 00:23:07

But a custodial model is basically

the, the, the neobank obviously

381

: 00:23:11

custody is the assets, the self

custodial, is that the own myself

382

: 00:23:16

that actually owns and controls that.

383

: 00:23:20

Private keys and things like

that a little bit as well.

384

: 00:23:25

While you are building out those

compliance teams, you have to

385

: 00:23:27

consider what goes through.

386

: 00:23:28

Those things require

custodial regulated, right?

387

: 00:23:31

For the, it's going to be checked.

388

: 00:23:33

You are handling and holding the

money on the self custodial side.

389

: 00:23:38

Well, the cost actually

probably comes more from, you've

390

: 00:23:41

gotta build a, a UX that is.

391

: 00:23:48

If I'm self custodial, I have got

to, if I'm using a self custodial

392

: 00:23:54

model, I have to keep my private keys.

393

: 00:23:56

I have to do things like

choose which blockchain and

394

: 00:23:59

transacting as stable coins are.

395

: 00:24:01

I have to do things like check the

gas fees and all of that, and so

396

: 00:24:05

building out that UX is actually

quite difficult, especially for

397

: 00:24:09

non, if you're trying to access.

398

: 00:24:12

Crypto or stable coin native users.

399

: 00:24:15

Um, and so you have to make that trade off

of are we going on a custodial route or

400

: 00:24:19

are we going on a self custodial route?

401

: 00:24:21

Um, because then obviously that

will then feed into your technology

402

: 00:24:24

costs, um, what you are building out

and, and also your security costs.

403

: 00:24:29

I think people read and have read, um,

a lot about the, the dangers of crypto,

404

: 00:24:36

of wallet and exchanges being to money

disappearing and things like that.

405

: 00:24:42

That's absolutely, that's absolutely true.

406

: 00:24:44

So you have to make sure that

whatever ecosystem or infrastructure

407

: 00:24:50

you are building has high security.

408

: 00:24:53

And because there are bad actors

out there, as there are in

409

: 00:24:57

the world of traveling, right?

410

: 00:24:59

Finance.

411

: 00:24:59

But, um, it's so.

412

: 00:25:03

Compliance is a big one, and the

user experience is obviously,

413

: 00:25:06

you know, spending on security.

414

: 00:25:08

And then the, the, the final one

is probably coming into your, your

415

: 00:25:12

liquidity management, your treasury

management, because whilst there is

416

: 00:25:17

a lot of liquidity on Bitcoin, on

stable, using a centralized exchange.

417

: 00:25:25

You are still having to ensure that

your on and off ramps are liquidated

418

: 00:25:30

enough so that, so that people

can move their money in and out.

419

: 00:25:34

Right.

420

: 00:25:35

Um, and what are the fees on that?

421

: 00:25:38

And again, speaking to some of

these on and off ramp providers.

422

: 00:25:43

The conversations that I've had with

them in the past are, well, we're,

423

: 00:25:47

we're, we're all starting out.

424

: 00:25:48

We're only really looking for companies

or businesses at the moment that are

425

: 00:25:52

doing high volume because we need to

recoup our fees from probably the,

426

: 00:25:57

the expenses that we've paid out,

relatively new startups as well.

427

: 00:26:02

So if you are having to use on

and off ramps to manage this.

428

: 00:26:07

Are you gonna eat those costs?

429

: 00:26:08

Because whole point of

stable coin is that it?

430

: 00:26:11

Well, the whole point, the big point

is that it's relatively cheap, but

431

: 00:26:14

if you're now adding on an off ramp

cost to your user, you might have to

432

: 00:26:17

actually consume those costs yourself.

433

: 00:26:21

Speaker 5: Yes.

434

: 00:26:22

And then you touched, well, other

than costs, that is like the

435

: 00:26:26

work question that comes to mind.

436

: 00:26:28

The second work question that comes

to mind is you talked about security.

437

: 00:26:34

Um, and yeah, there's

a risk and it is real.

438

: 00:26:39

So how about fraud?

439

: 00:26:44

It's a very large topic,

so I'll just say that.

440

: 00:26:46

How

441

: 00:26:46

Speaker 6: about fraud?

442

: 00:26:48

It's, it's, it's, it's a

big, it's a big topic, right?

443

: 00:26:50

And I think that this is another,

um, so this comes into a.

444

: 00:27:01

The, the good thing about

traditional money movement or

445

: 00:27:05

traditional banking is that fraud.

446

: 00:27:08

If you are fraud, you are

protected as a consumer, right?

447

: 00:27:12

That is one.

448

: 00:27:15

Get frauded out of your money.

449

: 00:27:17

You can call your bank, you

can tell them it's been proven,

450

: 00:27:19

and you get that money back.

451

: 00:27:21

The, the fraud sits with the bank.

452

: 00:27:23

So for you as a user, that's fantastic.

453

: 00:27:25

Now, for you, obviously as a business

that's not so great because you are having

454

: 00:27:29

to pay out all of these fraudulent claims.

455

: 00:27:32

Um, and so I think on this, there's two

parts, but I think the first part on

456

: 00:27:40

aspect.

457

: 00:27:45

Versus self

458

: 00:27:49

ensure that.

459

: 00:27:53

Isn't, you can consume protection that

is, that is going, gonna return your

460

: 00:28:00

capital and so is what is not being worked

on, but that is what's being looked at.

461

: 00:28:06

Right?

462

: 00:28:06

If you look at the United States,

they've just the genius act this

463

: 00:28:11

week, which is a big stable coin, uh,

piece of legislation, which is mainly

464

: 00:28:15

around stablecoin issuers and, uh,

what, what is a stablecoin viewed as?

465

: 00:28:20

As viewed as a payment?

466

: 00:28:23

Uh, security or something like that, but

that is probably months slash years to.

467

: 00:28:31

That builds into, I think,

your user experience journey.

468

: 00:28:35

How do you ensure that you are not

building a product that opens the

469

: 00:28:42

door to more fraudulent activity?

470

: 00:28:44

And then going, going beyond

that, what are you actually, then

471

: 00:28:51

what are you actually then doing?

472

: 00:28:52

And you see this a lot on the

other, on a lot of these sites.

473

: 00:28:55

You have to educate.

474

: 00:28:56

In a lot of cases, you have to educate,

you have to teach people, you have to

475

: 00:29:00

show them what, if you're following a

self custodial model where I own my money

476

: 00:29:04

myself, how are you protecting it as an

individual and what are you going to do

477

: 00:29:08

to, to be able to help me understand that?

478

: 00:29:10

So everyone is learning, but

in saying the actual, the.

479

: 00:29:18

Stable is that it's on

blockchain that's traceable.

480

: 00:29:22

So again, if you see these, there was

obviously an exchange recently they got,

481

: 00:29:27

they got hacked for quite a large amount.

482

: 00:29:30

With it being on on chain, you

can trace those funds and you can

483

: 00:29:34

see where those funds are going.

484

: 00:29:35

Now, whilst that obviously isn't.

485

: 00:29:37

Potentially gonna benefit, benefit

me as a user because I can just

486

: 00:29:40

see my money disappearing or

going through different spaces.

487

: 00:29:43

What it does mean is that the industry

can build really solid fraud module, more

488

: 00:29:47

fraud models around it, and can really

easily train their fraud and bad actor

489

: 00:29:53

detection on what these things look like.

490

: 00:29:56

If you look at the open banking and

within Europe and within the UK and

491

: 00:30:00

pretty much our own world, right?

492

: 00:30:02

One of the great things that came out.

493

: 00:30:05

They could easily detect

fraudulent activity.

494

: 00:30:08

They could, they could detect,

they could train AI models.

495

: 00:30:14

Not only on that, but let's say

on credit scores and things.

496

: 00:30:17

This is all possible within the world

of blockchain because you have every

497

: 00:30:20

piece of information stored on a ledger.

498

: 00:30:22

So it's, it's super

easy to be able to see.

499

: 00:30:25

It's just about making

sure that it's there.

500

: 00:30:27

So, you know, would I say that fraud

is as prevalent, you know, more

501

: 00:30:31

prevalent within the world of, um.

502

: 00:30:33

Digital assets and stable coins

versus traditional finance.

503

: 00:30:38

I don't know the, I don't know the stats.

504

: 00:30:40

Um, so I'm not gonna say yes or no,

but what I would say is that I think

505

: 00:30:43

that when is, it's probably getting a

lot more exposure because of it being a

506

: 00:30:48

new world, it being a bit of an unknown

world versus the old side of Yes, we,

507

: 00:30:52

we know that people get defrauded on

the traditional finance side as well.

508

: 00:30:59

Speaker 5: Because that's

a big consideration.

509

: 00:31:00

Right.

510

: 00:31:01

Especially as fintechs or neobank

start saying, yeah, we, we want to

511

: 00:31:06

get into the stable coin, uh, train.

512

: 00:31:10

We need to think it properly, and Yeah.

513

: 00:31:12

And it needs to go into

the product design process.

514

: 00:31:16

It's not just an Oh, yeah.

515

: 00:31:18

We build the infra, we build the user

experience, and eventually we pass it

516

: 00:31:22

to the FRA team to do some FRA growth.

517

: 00:31:25

Speaker 7: Yeah.

518

: 00:31:25

Speaker 5: It is, uh, it needs to

be by decide since the beginning.

519

: 00:31:29

Speaker 6: It, it, it

absolutely has to be.

520

: 00:31:31

And I think that, again, if you look

at the people who are doing it right

521

: 00:31:34

and doing it really well, they're not

just building K-Y-C-K-Y-B checks at the

522

: 00:31:41

minimum level in an unregulated world,

they're building it to the expectation.

523

: 00:31:46

What is coming in the future

in a highly regulated world?

524

: 00:31:51

You know, companies like Sling Money, um,

who provide services like kind of P two P,

525

: 00:31:57

they have got a fantastic check and they

will be able to then make sure that again.

526

: 00:32:05

If something comes along and they're like,

okay, well we'll look, we're gonna look

527

: 00:32:08

historically how we've been doing this.

528

: 00:32:10

Well yeah, we've taken a view that

you are gonna come and do this.

529

: 00:32:14

And so we, and it was the same thing

at Circle within what we did at Circle.

530

: 00:32:18

It was, we build not to the

regulation that's, we build to the

531

: 00:32:23

regulation that we're expecting at

the highest level in the future.

532

: 00:32:26

And then I user base.

533

: 00:32:28

You don't obviously want it to become

prohibitive and you can still get a set

534

: 00:32:32

up, an account in three minutes as you do

with Wise a Revolut or someone like that,

535

: 00:32:36

but you still get all the information

that you, that you need and to be able

536

: 00:32:39

to help on that, on that side of things.

537

: 00:32:43

Speaker 5: My other question

that was running through my mind

538

: 00:32:45

that is like you also mentioned,

this money is not protected.

539

: 00:32:49

You know, like at some point

we were like, Hey, money not

540

: 00:32:51

protected by FCA case of the uk.

541

: 00:32:54

So then when you said that,

I was like, of course.

542

: 00:32:56

But then from a customer

perspective, like we bank with a

543

: 00:33:00

bank because we know the money is

protected and that gives us trust.

544

: 00:33:05

So in this case we know the

money is not protected and

545

: 00:33:08

then it's kind of risky, but.

546

: 00:33:11

You know, like we start building

547

: 00:33:13

Speaker 7: Yeah.

548

: 00:33:13

This

549

: 00:33:13

Speaker 5: cloud in people's minds.

550

: 00:33:15

Hence what you mentioned was education

is super important, and then as we

551

: 00:33:20

educate and we build for the regulation

of the highest standards of the future.

552

: 00:33:26

Then we also need to communicate that

to customers that by design this is

553

: 00:33:30

built with security at the center

and regulation in mind and audit.

554

: 00:33:37

Speaker 6: Completely, completely.

555

: 00:33:38

And, and I think that it's,

it's about choosing that.

556

: 00:33:42

The great thing again now is

that we are in a world where the

557

: 00:33:45

partners that you can choose from

are, are incredibly high level.

558

: 00:33:50

So it's about you choosing the

part sets along along that journey.

559

: 00:33:55

If you are to look at.

560

: 00:33:56

Circle for example, you know, when

I spent, when I was at Circle,

561

: 00:34:00

there was a deep pegging event.

562

: 00:34:02

And a deep pegging event is

basically on the secondary

563

: 00:34:05

market where you can get USDC.

564

: 00:34:08

So from a centralized exchange, the

you can't get, you don't get $1 for $1,

565

: 00:34:14

the $1 that is on the secondary market.

566

: 00:34:16

On exchange, you can

actually, for 90 cents.

567

: 00:34:21

Uh, a view that it is not

worth a dollar anymore.

568

: 00:34:27

So there was obviously, you know,

a large amount of withdrawals from

569

: 00:34:31

circle in terms of people panicking in

terms of what was, what was going on.

570

: 00:34:35

The amazing thing about what if, again,

choosing the right partners, issuers, like

571

: 00:34:40

circle well, where were, if you gave me

a dollar, what did Circle do with that?

572

: 00:34:44

Well, it basically kept it in cash

or in something called HQ la, right?

573

: 00:34:49

High quality, uh, high quality liquid

assets, T bills, things like that.

574

: 00:34:54

So that if you wanted your money back.

575

: 00:34:56

It could easily give your money back.

576

: 00:34:59

And that's again, if you look at

traditional bank runs where there is a

577

: 00:35:03

concern, you go, okay, actually I'm gonna

go to the a tm, I think in the UK example

578

: 00:35:09

of the Northern Rock many, many years ago.

579

: 00:35:11

If I go to the uh, ATM and try and

draw my cash, the at m says there's

580

: 00:35:15

share because there isn't cash there.

581

: 00:35:17

The money that you gave to

the bank has been L out all.

582

: 00:35:22

However, with these stable coin issuers

and choosing that right parer, you

583

: 00:35:26

can see that actually the, the time it

takes to return your dollar from where

584

: 00:35:31

it was stored is within, within a day.

585

: 00:35:37

So that's something again, that within

that mindset of speaking to customers,

586

: 00:35:42

it's like, okay, if I give you a

dollar, where does that dollar go?

587

: 00:35:44

Well, it's actually custard with some of

the most trustworthy banks in the world.

588

: 00:35:51

In fact, probably the most

trustworthy banks in the world.

589

: 00:35:55

And so again, it's about piecing

that story together because

590

: 00:35:58

again, especially stable coins.

591

: 00:36:01

Well, where?

592

: 00:36:02

Where is that?

593

: 00:36:03

It's here in Bitcoin.

594

: 00:36:04

That's still the same aspect as well.

595

: 00:36:07

It's about where is your partner

Custodying Bitcoin, because there are many

596

: 00:36:11

custody providers of Bitcoin out there.

597

: 00:36:13

So if you are wanting to consider

if, if you are not gonna do that as

598

: 00:36:17

a neobank, well, I want to choose

one of a, the highest quality digital

599

: 00:36:23

custodians out there so that again,

I can return that money on, on, on,

600

: 00:36:27

um, on when it's required as well.

601

: 00:36:30

Speaker 5: Yeah.

602

: 00:36:32

Can you expand?

603

: 00:36:33

I think this is a critical point.

604

: 00:36:35

Um.

605

: 00:36:37

How do we select the right partner

or maybe the right question.

606

: 00:36:42

It's like, what's the criteria that

says this is a, this is a good partner.

607

: 00:36:49

Speaker 6: That's a good,

that's a really good question.

608

: 00:36:50

Speaker 5: Um,

609

: 00:36:50

Speaker 6: I think that what you are the.

610

: 00:36:55

The starting point of when, again,

people within the roots of ecosystem

611

: 00:36:59

and having these conversations.

612

: 00:37:00

The starting point that I speak

with 'em is they have to align

613

: 00:37:03

on your values of what you want

to build going forward, right?

614

: 00:37:07

And so if your values are.

615

: 00:37:11

Wanting to be highly regulated, or at

least attempt to be highly regulated

616

: 00:37:15

in what could come in the future

that you are building for longevity.

617

: 00:37:20

And again, stable coins is

becoming part of the digital

618

: 00:37:23

native and full product offering.

619

: 00:37:26

Um, and so combining those two

things, I think you've also

620

: 00:37:31

really gotta consider the.

621

: 00:37:35

At this stage, where are the,

and there's probably two sides.

622

: 00:37:40

Where are the majority of people going to?

623

: 00:37:42

Um, because we are in a, not a

scheduling industry at any stretch

624

: 00:37:49

of the imagination, but we're, um,

we are at that stage where I think

625

: 00:37:52

there are players coming to fruition

who are more considerably large.

626

: 00:37:57

Numbers B as an example, bridge and.

627

: 00:38:03

Those are the kinds of, those

are the kinds of partners

628

: 00:38:06

that I think I can align to.

629

: 00:38:07

'cause they are the, the larger of the

group and they're all highly innovative.

630

: 00:38:11

That's the, there's no one resting

on this industry who are at the top.

631

: 00:38:16

That's the amazing thing

because there's such a big.

632

: 00:38:20

Everyone's incredibly to be

able to make sure that they're

633

: 00:38:23

providing the best service.

634

: 00:38:25

Um, but then I think on the other

side, you, you look and there are some

635

: 00:38:28

incredible, well not new entrance in

the space, but incredible providers

636

: 00:38:33

who are, um, founders of businesses

that are, um, who have on a.

637

: 00:38:46

And they've built something really

smart and what that can be doing.

638

: 00:38:50

Because I think, and so if you are

at an earlier stage of your journey

639

: 00:38:57

Speaker 7: and

640

: 00:38:57

Speaker 6: being a, a neobank, then you

are obviously gonna scale up with them.

641

: 00:39:01

We, again, root stock or kind

of within actually a different

642

: 00:39:05

area of what we're doing.

643

: 00:39:07

We were looking at different partners that

we could be using, and one of the things

644

: 00:39:11

that really appealed to us is that one of

these partners obviously kind of covered

645

: 00:39:16

all of the regulatory concerns that we

had, compliance concerns and things like

646

: 00:39:19

that, but they were at a similar stage of

really wanting to grow of a certain area.

647

: 00:39:23

And so they weren't so big, but

we not became a little fish to

648

: 00:39:27

them because I don't think they,

649

: 00:39:30

but really, really wanted to help us and.

650

: 00:39:36

Coming myself, myself, coming from

a kind of traditional finance slash

651

: 00:39:39

FinTech background into stablecoin

digital assets and then into crypto.

652

: 00:39:45

The thing that is, the thing that

I've noticed more than anything

653

: 00:39:48

is there is a huge community of

everyone trying to help everyone.

654

: 00:39:52

So you can plug into that and you

can say, look, we're all at this

655

: 00:39:56

very much like a startup kind of.

656

: 00:40:00

But across the entire industry, right?

657

: 00:40:03

So if you are wanting

to look for a corridor.

658

: 00:40:07

Malaysia and Kenya for on, on our fronts.

659

: 00:40:10

You can go to one of these people and

say, look, we, we are wanting to do this.

660

: 00:40:13

And they'll be like, cool,

that sounds interesting.

661

: 00:40:15

Is there a market demand for it?

662

: 00:40:16

Okay, we'll do it.

663

: 00:40:17

We'll look at building

it and those things.

664

: 00:40:18

So, no, I, I think the, the first

thing is that, like I say, they,

665

: 00:40:22

they have to meet your cultural and

your, um, outlook perspective on what

666

: 00:40:27

you want to do with stable coins.

667

: 00:40:29

Um, and yeah, I.

668

: 00:40:35

Stable businesses who do just stable coin

work will, if, if you want to go deep into

669

: 00:40:43

stable coins, that's, that's the place.

670

: 00:40:46

'cause that's where they're

dedicating all of their time.

671

: 00:40:47

They're obsessive with the technology.

672

: 00:40:50

Uh, and they wanna drill down into it.

673

: 00:40:52

Speaker 5: Yes, yes.

674

: 00:40:53

That makes a ton of sense.

675

: 00:40:55

Um, I think we've been

speaking for almost 40 minutes.

676

: 00:41:00

Um.

677

: 00:41:01

Tell us about Rootstock, like

what exactly did you guys do?

678

: 00:41:06

Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely.

679

: 00:41:07

So for Rootstock, we are a Bitcoin

size chain, and we are EVM compensable.

680

: 00:41:13

So what that means is that.

681

: 00:41:16

If you are a user or a builder

on Bitcoin or or Bitcoin, you

682

: 00:41:21

can then use that Bitcoin in EVM,

which is smoke or small contracts.

683

: 00:41:28

And so, which are basically

if then statements, right?

684

: 00:41:32

This is another thing that's

great about Bitcoin and great

685

: 00:41:34

about stable coins is that, um.

686

: 00:41:36

If this happens, then this should happen.

687

: 00:41:40

And so when you are a blockchain that,

um, allows for that to be built but

688

: 00:41:45

uses Bitcoin as the underlying asset,

then you open up a world, a huge

689

: 00:41:49

world of things that people can do.

690

: 00:41:51

So for take, for example, I am

a, I'm a a business builder.

691

: 00:41:56

I'm a neobank and I want to

appeal to Bitcoin holders, right?

692

: 00:42:01

There are many Bitcoin holders

all around the world, but

693

: 00:42:03

let's say I'm in Latin America.

694

: 00:42:04

And those holders are individuals

who are wanting to, um, hold Bitcoin,

695

: 00:42:11

but then they're also wanting to

have a business and they're wanting

696

: 00:42:14

to make payments of semi payment.

697

: 00:42:18

Well, what can be done on

our blockchain with our.

698

: 00:42:22

Small contract technology is to be able

to build that technology so that people

699

: 00:42:28

can use that Bitcoin, keep their exposure

to Bitcoin, but then also have things

700

: 00:42:33

happen with that Bitcoin that relates

to an if, uh, if then kind of statement.

701

: 00:42:41

Speaker 5: Like tie this all together

in a practical, innovative way.

702

: 00:42:45

And I'm going to speak just

like, uh, thinking out loud.

703

: 00:42:48

This may not even make sense.

704

: 00:42:50

Uh, so we're a neobank, not, we don't

have exposure to, let's say Bitcoin stable

705

: 00:42:57

coins, just like a traditional neobank.

706

: 00:43:00

Then you say, Hey, we

need to go into the space.

707

: 00:43:03

One option is, hey, we

will create a wallet.

708

: 00:43:08

For people to hold, whether

that it's Bitcoin stable

709

: 00:43:11

coins, then they can have it.

710

: 00:43:13

Then my roadmap would be like, Hey,

you need to be able to receive money.

711

: 00:43:18

You need to be able to hold money.

712

: 00:43:20

Ideally, you'll be able to have

some, to get some interest from that

713

: 00:43:24

money that you're saving with us.

714

: 00:43:27

Then my next use case gonna be you're,

you need to be able to pay with

715

: 00:43:33

this money that you have, so maybe.

716

: 00:43:36

In the short term, there will be like

a, a card that you pay with card that

717

: 00:43:41

you pay with Bitcoin in the future.

718

: 00:43:43

There will be a QR payment in Asia.

719

: 00:43:45

It's like QR payment enabled,

uh, with, uh, stable coins

720

: 00:43:50

or Bitcoin in the background.

721

: 00:43:52

So that's like basically holding

money, saving money, paying money.

722

: 00:43:58

But then the, for me to pay,

of course there needs to be

723

: 00:44:02

the, the merchant that's.

724

: 00:44:05

Accepting these payments.

725

: 00:44:07

Most neo banks don't do acquiring.

726

: 00:44:09

Yeah.

727

: 00:44:09

But there will be somebody

else doing the acquiring bit.

728

: 00:44:13

But what you're saying is that's,

let's say the quote unquote basics,

729

: 00:44:19

but then we can innovate even further.

730

: 00:44:23

If we think of companies like

Woodstock that then we put together

731

: 00:44:27

the use case of programmable money.

732

: 00:44:30

Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely.

733

: 00:44:32

Yeah, absolutely.

734

: 00:44:33

And, and, and Rootstock being that,

that blockchain, you know, rootstock

735

: 00:44:36

is a, it's a payment network in, in

essence right within this conversation.

736

: 00:44:42

It is a way to send from A

to B like IT salon theory.

737

: 00:44:49

And what blockchains do and what we

do at Rootstock is we think, well,

738

: 00:44:53

how do we make that payment network

or that network as usable as possible?

739

: 00:44:58

What can we do to make

it as as as interesting?

740

: 00:45:01

And like I said, what we, we obviously

did is like ethere these Ethereum

741

: 00:45:05

start or smart contracts so that people

can program that money to actually

742

: 00:45:10

be able to act and work without

743

: 00:45:14

interference or without manual input.

744

: 00:45:17

And also.

745

: 00:45:18

The other aspect to it is

that you see if you, you know,

746

: 00:45:22

look in the world of crypto.

747

: 00:45:24

Ethereum is a, is a huge, um, blockchain

and people who use Ethereum are

748

: 00:45:31

often those who are wanting to build

programs, build, let's say neobanks

749

: 00:45:35

or build anything but on chain.

750

: 00:45:37

Well, what we do is we, we take

that ability to build on Ethereum,

751

: 00:45:42

which is kind of seen as the

biggest developer blockchain.

752

: 00:45:45

And we say, that's great, but what

about if you want to build that, but

753

: 00:45:48

you use Bitcoin as the underlying asset.

754

: 00:45:51

So you are then able to use whatever

you are building over there that you

755

: 00:45:55

use Bitcoin, and we help you obviously

transfer that back and forth, um, in

756

: 00:46:00

whichever way that you are doing it.

757

: 00:46:01

And we do it as quickly as possible,

which is, you know, relatively quick

758

: 00:46:04

in terms of, especially in, you know,

very quick in terms of traditional

759

: 00:46:07

home rails and also cheaply.

760

: 00:46:11

But where we go

761

: 00:46:17

specifically for is.

762

: 00:46:20

Bitcoin, and this is going

reasonably, you know, a little bit

763

: 00:46:23

deeper is something proof of work.

764

: 00:46:26

So how do I know that a

Bitcoin transaction has been

765

: 00:46:29

moved on the blockchain?

766

: 00:46:30

Well, it's by these things called miners,

and you've probably seen it in the news

767

: 00:46:35

and things like of people mining Bitcoin.

768

: 00:46:38

Well, that secures the

chain as incredibly secure.

769

: 00:46:41

Well, what we do is we take that.

770

: 00:46:43

It's those miners, and we're

secured about 80% of those miners.

771

: 00:46:47

So each transaction on root stock

is secured by the same 80 to 90%

772

: 00:46:51

of the same transactions that

occur on the main Bitcoin chain.

773

: 00:46:55

So again, when we are having these

conversations with, with neo banks or

774

: 00:47:00

whoever, you always get to that aspect

of, well, what's the security like?

775

: 00:47:05

Can there be a breach in the chain?

776

: 00:47:07

Can there be a breakdown somewhere?

777

: 00:47:09

And our response to that

is, well, Bitcoin is.

778

: 00:47:11

The safest.

779

: 00:47:12

The safest chain out there.

780

: 00:47:14

And we're the second safest because

we're balanced by nearly all of

781

: 00:47:17

the parts of the Bitcoin chain.

782

: 00:47:20

Speaker 5: Okay.

783

: 00:47:20

And then kind of like going full circle at

some point you said when it is important

784

: 00:47:27

that when you choose the partners, it

needs to be aligned with your values.

785

: 00:47:32

You guys are very purpose driven as well.

786

: 00:47:35

That's kind of, that's what caught

my attention, was like, oh, cool.

787

: 00:47:39

Of course, we're in purpose

driven FinTech, right?

788

: 00:47:40

So we cannot not talk about purpose.

789

: 00:47:43

Speaker 7: Yeah.

790

: 00:47:43

So tell us

791

: 00:47:44

Speaker 5: a little bit more of

what makes you guys purpose driven.

792

: 00:47:50

Speaker 6: I mean, it's, it's in the

founding DNA, our founders are from

793

: 00:47:54

Latin America, ICNA specifically.

794

: 00:47:57

And you know, one of the reasons

that they find founded Rootstock

795

: 00:48:00

was because they wanted to provide

everyday people and everyday users.

796

: 00:48:05

The ability to hedge against the

inflation of Payson or another

797

: 00:48:10

currency that they're exposed to.

798

: 00:48:11

So they, they believe, and we believe that

Bitcoin is that way to be able to do it.

799

: 00:48:16

And so they, rootstock is the

blockchain to be able to allow for

800

: 00:48:20

those different things to happen.

801

: 00:48:21

And so, you know, for, for myself

at Rootstock, what do I do?

802

: 00:48:25

I.

803

: 00:48:27

Integrated partners who spend in terms

of trying to figure out what their use

804

: 00:48:32

case is and trying to figure out how

that best fits on the rootstock chain.

805

: 00:48:37

So our view is whatever we are building

or whatever is being built on our chain.

806

: 00:48:43

Our end goal is always to improve

financial inclusion and the lives of

807

: 00:48:49

everyday users, and that goes back

into that stable coin conversation.

808

: 00:48:53

It's kind of one of the reasons

why we joined Circle because their

809

: 00:48:56

biggest, biggest message, right,

is improve financial inclusion back

810

: 00:49:01

the unbank, disenfranchised, the.

811

: 00:49:07

We, we will always go out and look at

thinking ways that we can ensure, and this

812

: 00:49:15

is a long journey that we want to be able

to go on, but eventually we have built

813

: 00:49:20

an ecosystem where partners, neobanks or

whoever are built on top of root stock.

814

: 00:49:26

Where their end goal is to

serve the everyday users.

815

: 00:49:31

And, and that, that, that was a big

part of Rootstock for a number of years.

816

: 00:49:36

We've gone a little bit more global

than what we do and who we target,

817

: 00:49:39

but the underlying theme is, is

always there of getting back to

818

: 00:49:43

that side of if I hold Bitcoin or

I can hold stable coins, um, into.

819

: 00:49:53

I'm using it because in some way it

helps increase or improve my financial

820

: 00:50:00

stability, my financial inclusion.

821

: 00:50:02

I am, I can, I am a holder of Bitcoin.

822

: 00:50:06

I.

823

: 00:50:09

Hunched on inflation.

824

: 00:50:10

But what I can also do is I can use

that Bitcoin as collateral to get a

825

: 00:50:14

loan for business or I can get a, from

a partner that's built on rootstock.

826

: 00:50:19

'cause what that partner is is

gonna be doing is they take that

827

: 00:50:23

Bitcoin as collateral and they

might give you a stable coin kind

828

: 00:50:26

in in return to be able to do that.

829

: 00:50:28

And so again, it's about looking at all

of these different cases and thinking

830

: 00:50:32

about what is the best option, and we

bring the entire ecosystem together.

831

: 00:50:38

So if I'm speaking to that

partner who is building a, a

832

: 00:50:43

lending and borrowing business or.

833

: 00:50:46

Let's say a wage business where they're

providing credit on upfront wages.

834

: 00:50:51

I'll say, well, hold on a minute.

835

: 00:50:52

I have a great conversation with this

partner over here who's looking to do

836

: 00:50:56

something in terms of actually being able

to, um, ensure that the collateral you

837

: 00:51:02

are providing is, is safe, is secure.

838

: 00:51:05

So if you marry the two together,

then, then, then it's great.

839

: 00:51:08

So, but it's, it's at the heart of

everything that we do and that's,

840

: 00:51:12

that's a, it's a great mission to

be able to try and work towards.

841

: 00:51:16

Speaker 5: It's been

a really good episode.

842

: 00:51:18

'cause these are questions that come

up all the time for people who are

843

: 00:51:20

not, um, you know, like working daily

in the industry, but the ones that we

844

: 00:51:25

are thinking, Hey, we want to get into,

it's like it clarified many points

845

: 00:51:28

in a, in a easy to understand way.

846

: 00:51:31

I always say it like

the plain English way,

847

: 00:51:34

Speaker 6: Mott.

848

: 00:51:34

Yeah.

849

: 00:51:34

Good.

850

: 00:51:35

Yeah, exactly.

851

: 00:51:36

And that's, and that's really

useful for me because to be honest,

852

: 00:51:38

I'm someone who doesn't do well

with technical jargon either.

853

: 00:51:41

And so it always has to be.

854

: 00:51:45

Speaker 5: Yeah, it's

the plain English one.

855

: 00:51:48

Okay.

856

: 00:51:48

So just like to finalize, like,

given that we've covered so much,

857

: 00:51:55

what do you think are the three key

takeaways that we have from this

858

: 00:51:58

conversation for someone in a neobank?

859

: 00:52:02

Speaker 6: Yeah.

860

: 00:52:03

I think you have to, a, a big one

is you have to really strongly

861

: 00:52:07

consider, are you in, are you gonna.

862

: 00:52:10

Build stable coins into your business

as a feature, or are you gonna build

863

: 00:52:14

it in as a full infrastructure?

864

: 00:52:16

Are you, are you wanting to add it

as an add-on, or is it going to be

865

: 00:52:20

actually something that improves,

improves efficiency all around,

866

: 00:52:23

there's no right or wrong answer,

but obviously it's about then you're

867

: 00:52:27

gonna set up to try and achieve that.

868

: 00:52:29

Achieve, achieve that goal.

869

: 00:52:30

My answer to that is that

stable coins help throughout

870

: 00:52:33

the stack and the end user.

871

: 00:52:35

So you're not, you don't

have become stable Bitcoin.

872

: 00:52:39

But it's very, you know, it's

very worthwhile considering.

873

: 00:52:43

Um, I think that it's about solving

the real pain points, especially for

874

: 00:52:50

the, the underserved in your region.

875

: 00:52:52

Right.

876

: 00:52:52

Or within your area.

877

: 00:52:54

Is it that stable coins can

provide better remittances?

878

: 00:52:57

Is it that stable coins.

879

: 00:52:59

Or, and Bitcoin can provide

collateral services for loans.

880

: 00:53:03

Again, what is it that,

the, what is the pain point?

881

: 00:53:06

That it is that you are,

you are, you're solving.

882

: 00:53:08

Um, and I think that the,

it's about the build.

883

: 00:53:12

So build securely, build forward looking

in terms of compliance and build ux.

884

: 00:53:24

Suitable for your user base.

885

: 00:53:26

If you are going after stable coin

and crypto native users, fine.

886

: 00:53:31

They get, you know, seed phrases, keys

and gas fees and things like that.

887

: 00:53:37

If not, I'm probably not a user

who's going to want to know what

888

: 00:53:41

chain I'm transferring money on,

nor do I want to have to put in a.

889

: 00:53:46

30 digit wallet code to know that I'm

sending my money from here to here.

890

: 00:53:49

It should be from Richard to

Monica and, and that's it.

891

: 00:53:52

So I think it's around, I would say,

you know, around those points are

892

: 00:53:56

probably the, the, the biggest for me.

893

: 00:53:59

Speaker 5: Perfect.

894

: 00:53:59

Richard, it's been a pleasure

having you in the show.

895

: 00:54:02

Thank you so much.

896

: 00:54:04

Speaker 6: Yeah, thank

you so much, Monica.

897

: 00:54:05

It's been nice.

898

: 00:54:05

It's been great.

899

: 00:54:07

Speaker 5: Thank you.

900

: 00:54:08

Thank

901

: 00:54:08

Speaker 6: you.