Founder: £2 Billion Annual Lost Payments in Subscriptions: Taking Control of Subscriptions While You Sleep | Delphine Emenyonu Co-founder at ScribePay

Monica Millares: [: 00:00:00

Delphine Emenyonu: am Delphine, and you're listening and watching Purpose Driven FinTech.

Monica Millares: Welcome everyone. Hello Delphine. It's a pleasure having you on the show. How are you today?

Delphine Emenyonu: I'm very well. It's a nice, it's a lot nicer here in London. We've not really had the best of the summer, but it's a lot nicer now, I would say.

Monica Millares: That is good. That's always a great start. So you and I met many years ago. Yes. And then we used to work together in Barclays many years ago, and then we both took different journeys, entrepreneurial journeys, I took the entrepreneurial journey, joining a founder, and then eventually now you've become a founder, so I'm really looking forward to hearing your story.

Looking

u: forward to sharing. Thank [: 00:01:00

Monica Millares: Before we get started into the founding story and all that, first, I want to get to know you a little bit as a Delphine human. Let's start with my favorite questions that it's all about mindset. How do you deal with failure and the tough

Delphine Emenyonu: times? How do you deal with failure and the tough time?

My approach is always being comfortable. In doing an uncomfortable period, and I always look at things from an economic cycle perspective, so whereby you're going to have your peaks, but you're going to have your low points, but actually being very comfortable in your low points, because that's really where you get to learn.

ity, because if you use that [: 00:02:00

So for me I would say being very comfortable in when there is discomfort. Using that as an opportunity to learn, also get advice from different people, because let's be honest, you are not going to be the first, you're not going to be the last person to go through a down period, but then most importantly, really more around how you can use that as an opportunity to accelerate that growth opportunity.

So that's how I deal with it, but also I have family. Let's be honest it's not we're not all, we're not all an island, right? So also leveraging family, leveraging friends is so important because at the end of the day, we're still very human. Yes. I think

Monica Millares: that's such an important piece.

t, an amazing woman here the [: 00:03:00

sta

Monica Millares: big CEO in the FinTech space. And then I asked her, what's your secret to success? Like she's also has a family, this, the other, and she said, my support network, I was like, of course it's a, yeah, support network, whether that's family, friends, colleagues, makes a massive difference,

Delphine Emenyonu: massive difference.

Yeah, it does.

Monica Millares: So talking about peers and support network we many times rely on advice that other people tell us. But I like asking a different type of insightful question because it comes from the heart. So if you look back at your career, what type of advice you wish somebody gave you when you were younger that they

Delphine Emenyonu: didn't?

oing to go all the way back. [: 00:04:00

And I remember at the end of the first term, you're given a predicted grade. And that predictor grid is what you typically use to basically say, okay, fine, when it's time to apply for university, that's what you would use. And I think one thing I wish I knew then was just because someone has predicted something for you.

that doesn't mean it's going [: 00:05:00

And actually, you, whether you like it or not, are in charge of your destiny. And... That is just something I wish I had in me. And the reason why I say that is because it really limited my ability because I was predicted, I did economics business studies and I did theater and they predicted that I was going to get an E in economics.

And for me, I just thought that was going to be the outcome, right? and it limited my ability to one, apply to, I went to a good university, so I went to Cardiff University, which was a great university. But the idea of actually going to an Oxford or a Cambridge for me was like impossible. Not even. Not even.

n to basically say, I know I [: 00:06:00

And even though this is true story, even though that I finished and I got an A in economics, just to let you understand still the self doubt. At that point in time, I had the option of actually changing my university, but I still had that self doubt. I got the A. There was nothing stopping me and stuff like that.

So I think for me, it's really more around, I just wish I believed in myself then. But one thing I will say is that I have taken that learning and that's really helped me in terms of my career. So whereby doing, and especially doing what I do starting up a FinTech as a Black female founder, that in itself is audacious.

So I think for me, I wish I had gotten it right then. But the good thing though, is that I have learned from it and now I'm applying

ica Millares: it. I love it. [: 00:07:00

And I always take what people are telling me with a pinch of salt because I don't know your context. I don't know and the words are very powerful, just like you say. Extremely powerful. So it's not because your boss said something, you take it for truth. So it's be very careful on, what you tell yourself because it stays with you in your mind.

Okay. So this podcast is about how do we make the industry better? And the part of that, it's like, how do we build products with impact and how we are more purpose driven. In your opinion, what is the role of purpose in the industry?

s the role of purpose in the [: 00:08:00

And I think a good example that I like to think about although it's not my product, but I think about things like money remittance, right? As a good example. So whereby it seems like a lot of people are just focused on moving money from point A to point B. But actually the purpose actually is not, yes, you're moving money from.

hatever we're doing, I think [: 00:09:00

And that's the way I look at things in terms of just make sure that whatever you're doing. Yes, make it easy, but make sure there is a purpose. And obviously, from a UK perspective, in terms of also giving back, if, for example, you get to an opportunity to develop your own organization, how are you giving back to your community?

Because ultimately, the better, better balanced communities that we have, the actual more opportunity and innovation that you would get. So I think for me, purpose is, yes, build flashy products. Yes, build something that is great, but just make sure that you have that community lens approach, because ultimately by giving back to your community, it really makes the world a better place.

I like

even ask that as a question [: 00:10:00

And then probably that will take us to think in a different way. Absolutely. Which I love this as a great introduction to you. What do you are doing in, what are you doing in a Scribd?

Delphine Emenyonu: So I would say, what am I audaciously trying to do? So you mentioned we met when we were both in Barclays.

to something, I got charged, [: 00:11:00

They said, no. And then they said, I need to send an email and I thought, come on this is crazy. So I thought, is there a way that we could potentially re engineer the way people pay for goods and services? Especially how a lot of the tools that we use are very good for very transactional based services.

It works because guess what? You're there. You have your card, you have your pin, you're aware of your payment. But when it comes to subscriptions, a lot of the payments are taken. To be honest with you, when everyone is sleeping, and by the time you wake up in the morning, you don't actually notice it. So it was really more around thinking, how do we re engineer the way people can still have control of their money, even when they're sleeping.

It also helps when your free [: 00:12:00

So when you subscribe to a service, we automatically track the subscription. When that service is about to auto renew, instead of what I consider your current, your account being a blank check, we actually alert you and say, this merchant wants to take money from your account. Do you approve? And it's only when you approve.

That they can actually take money from your account. And what we're now doing here is what I consider building a happy ecosystem, if I'm honest, whereby you have consumers or users who are confident to try new subscriptions. But then also, to be honest, merchants who have the ability to get more customers because now people are saying, actually, if I do not want that service, I have the ability and freedom to stop it.

is week. And I woke up and I [: 00:13:00

I was like, okay, I have time to go and cancel. Yes, but it is a genuine pain point. And tons of money is wasted from a customer perspective in subscriptions that we do not

Delphine Emenyonu: want. So I think there's a little stack on that. I think in the UK, I think there's 26 billion or 25 billion is spent every year in terms of subscriptions.

average, it's probably around: 3000

It's really a lot of money that is lost. But also the anxiety and stress, like you said, you woke up in the morning thinking, Oh my God, the money has gone out of my account. That anxiety, how can we prevent that from happening? Yes.

Monica Millares: And I think you touched like a very good point because there's different type of customers.

We have the consumers that may have two to three subscriptions, Netflix, Spotify, and something else. And it's limited, but then you have, let's say the content creators, the freelancers, the self employed that as part of their job. They, or their passion projects, they test different softwares. Just to do a better outputs of their creativity or their job.

[: 00:15:00

Delphine Emenyonu: billion a year. This is, and that, that is a I think that's information Citizen Advised Bureau.

So that is information that is readily available, but 2 billion a year. And this is on consumer. So we're not even touching on your freelancers and your self employed. Just imagine if we included them into that spectrum, then it would be a lot more. But one thing I would say is that I do believe that subscriptions are the future, right?

It gives people, like you said, the opportunity to try new services. But what I just do not like is the fact that a lot of people are losing sleep, but are also losing money. When it comes to trying out services. And I just think there needs to just be a different way, really, if I'm honest.

Monica Millares: Yes. So what are the, you're saying people are losing sleep and money.

So what are the biggest pain points that people have when it comes

nk the first one is the fact [: 00:16:00

But however, when it comes to subscriptions, a lot of the time, the transactions, especially the free trials, it's zero. So it's never going to appear on your bank card. So you automatically have no visibility of what is happening. So I think one of the first pain points is that there isn't really visibility in terms of really what your subscriptions are.

I think another second pain point is auto renewals. So when I say auto renewals is whereby, yes, I know that I have subscribed to a service, but I want to be alerted of that auto renewal before it happens. Now there is a digital bill that's coming into place that basically requires organizations to send notification.

, what I tend to see is that [: 00:17:00

So I think another second point is really just that notification. And I think the third one really is control of their money, right? There's something called a continuous payment authorization, which me and you are aware of, whereby if you give your card, A lot of people don't know this, but you are giving that merchant continuous authorisation to basically take money from your account.

People, average consumer doesn't know that. So for me, it's really more around, yes, I am giving my card details. But I still at the same time, I want to have control. So I would say those three key things is just having better visibility of your money, of your subscriptions, getting notifications and reminders, right?

But also really that control so that you can actually manage your expenses a bit better and also manage your cash flow a bit better. Yes,

Monica Millares: I think [: 00:18:00

My question is, of course you have ScribePay. Why are other financial services solutions or institutions not solving this problem the right way? What's your take on that? Because it's

do like a horky chart. So in: 2013

When you thought about subscriptions, it was literally what? Sky? Or your standard direct debits, right? And if I'm honest, a lot of people confuse subscriptions with direct debits. One of the things I want to do is actually say they're very different, right? So your direct debit is your water bill, your utility bill.

lity here is that you are in [: 00:19:00

So it's really whereby you're going online and then you put in your card details. There's a big difference and we've seen that grow from 7 billion in 10 years to 20 something. I'm sorry, that is a massive growth and I think really it's more around a lot of the organizations, first of all, distinguishing between a subscription and a direct debit.

Because at the moment, a lot of people just put it into one band and they say if you wanted to stop a direct debit, it's very easy because you can do that in your app. So I think that's one of the things. I think another thing we're seeing now is we're seeing a lot of new entrants into the marketplace.

There have been three, four [: 00:20:00

But one thing I will say though, a lot of it has been focused more on leveraging open banking, whereby they leverage open banking, they bring all your data into one place. I think that's a good step, right? because it does one of the pain points I talked about, which is visibility of your subscription.

But by that time, you've already lost money. Yes, I have visibility and I can stop it. And I think really what Scriber is trying to do is to say, yes, we can give you that visibility. But actually, really, if you have control from the get go, then visibility. It's automatic, really. So we're seeing a change.

y come as a surprise, if I'm [: 00:21:00

They do lending. They do everyday banking, et cetera. So one of the things I'm hoping to stop trying to do is think about, okay, fine. If we can't do what a company that focuses on subscription is doing, why don't we potentially partner with them, et cetera. The industry is growing, like I said, and we are seeing a lot more players now than there were two years ago.

Yeah, and then

Monica Millares: that, that is good on its own, that there's more people trying to solve this problem because the problem is a big problem worth solving. Can you guide us for your solution? Like how do you give me visibility? How can I stop

Delphine Emenyonu: the payment? Sure. So I'll guide you through, I'll guide you through our solution.

So I talked about [: 00:22:00

So you simple add your subscriptions and you could also track free trials. We also support over a hundred different currencies. So even if, for example, you have a subscription that you're based in the UK, but it's a subscription, for example, that it's in Malaysia, we have the ability for you to track that and convert it so you can actually then budget properly from a UK perspective as

Monica Millares: well.

I love that. In my case, while I'm in Malaysia, I have many subscriptions in USD. And I'm like, yeah, and I never know roughly how much it is. You

Delphine Emenyonu: never know. And all of that, and we use on a daily basis from a currency conversion perspective, we make sure that is up to date.

exactly how much you need to [: 00:23:00

But then we then have our premium version and our premium version. I say it takes it up a notch. And what we're doing there is we basically are giving you a financial tool. To basically help automate all your subscriptions. So with our premium version, what you get is you get your e money wallet to basically store your subscription money.

So you, and it's a source code and a an account number and it's an EMI, so it's secure. We don't lend. That money is safeguarded. But then you also get your virtual card, which is a mastercard, and you basically use that to pay. But the difference is, if, for example, I was to subscribe to, let me use an example, Adobe, right?

Because that's a common tool [: 00:24:00

And I think that's one of the things that Waze is an app that is very intuitive, whereby we don't check with you to just say, is this information correct? And you are then helping in terms of make sure that our technology is up to date as much as possible. But then also what happens is when Adobe is due.

We'll send you a reminder. If it's a free trial, we'll send you a reminder. But then also if Adobe was a free trial and was going to go into a pay trial, when Adobe wants to charge you, as opposed to your traditional bank accounts, where the money just goes with ScribePay would alert you and say, Adobe wants to charge you 9.

it back. We take care of it. [: 00:25:00

And you know that you would never have that anxiety like you had waking up and thinking, Oh my God did they charge me? That would never happen because you're always in control on the go as well.

Monica Millares: I really like that and that is leading me to think more of your product development process as such.

So you have a series of pain points that resulted in these user journeys that are solving the problem. How did you go about ideating? How did you speak with customers? Did you, how did you validate the problem? How can you guide us through? Absolutely.

nyonu: So the idea started in: 2020

How dare [00:26:00] they charge me? And then we were very fortunate enough to join the Barclays Black Founder Accelerator Program. And when we joined. It was really an idea and we, everyone you spoke to highlighted, they had that problem, but really, let's be honest, we did not know what the solution was.

So we're very fortunate to go through a variety of masterclasses and things like that. And it was through that, that we came up with our MVP, right? We then basically said, this is what the solution would look like. And it was a very good thought process because as part of that, we did customer research.

We spoke to a lot of customers who told us they didn't like the idea of open banking that that it's open. Banking is great, but the fact is, one, they don't know who we are, right? So the idea of actually giving us where we're not a known brand name, right? Didn't make them feel comfortable that actually what they would prefer is for them to manually.

Put in their [: 00:27:00

As in, if, for example, you can take all my worries and things like that, I'll happily pay a fiver a month because at the end of the day, I know that I spent a lot more money. I've seen. It's been a lot more on coffee. So it was through that, that we now then had the product. But you have to remember, I don't have a tech background, right?

I have a payments background. So then it was a challenge then looking for who was going to build the product. But we're, but this is why I talk about the power of network keep talking because literally I met someone. Who told me about someone and then who told me about another person and then was through that then we then found the team that helped us to build the product.

mber, yes, you have an idea. [: 00:28:00

Iteration, right? Because at the time they see it, they were thinking I thought it was going to be this way and that way. So we went through a really long process, if I'm honest with you, of actually, that idea stage to actually having what we consider our, I would say minimum viable, but at the moment now we're at a stage where we're more around a product market fit, I would say, in terms of actually getting the product into, place.

onths. We started the idea in: 2020

Monica Millares: Oh, wow. Yeah, that took you two years. How? Were you working at the time?

Yes. Yes. Yes.

s another thing as well. And [: 00:29:00

So you still need to potentially be doing this, what I consider during the day in terms of doing your job during the day. And then at night, you really under during the weekends. You then basically try and do what it what you require to make it a reality and in the UK, unfortunately, unlike in the US where there's a lot more funding, so whereby you could potentially get access to funding to actually do stuff in the UK is a lot more challenging whereby before you get that investment, a lot of people want to see revenue, right?

g revenue, if I'm honest. So [: 00:30:00

Monica Millares: is impressive. Well done, you and the team.

Delphine Emenyonu: And the team. And it takes a village. Yeah. Yes, it does. It takes a village.

It's not only me. Yes, you might have the great idea, but it takes a village. My co founder, the tech team, our partners, it takes a village and just really more around everyone being committed. So it's not just me. There's a village behind me that makes this even a reality. Exactly.

Monica Millares: And what are the challenges that you, because like now you have the product.

what challenges do you have [: 00:31:00

Delphine Emenyonu: Our biggest challenge I would say is access to funding. And when we initially started off with the idea, the plan was to show what I consider a scrappy MVP and then use that scrappy MVP to get access to funding. That was the plan. What we quickly realized was that in the UK, there's nothing like a scrappy MVP.

people coming in, the people [: 00:32:00

So we have that, I would say, early product market fit. In addition to that, we've also done external research to further validate it in terms of who our audience. So we're at a stage where we have a product. We know who our audience, we're now then looking for our first, what I consider our pre seed to really help us go target that audience for skill.

And a lot of that is really what our next step is in terms of what we're looking for. So I'll say really access to funding now, because we know exactly what we, know exactly what we're doing. So that we can actually target our audience and really grow. Let me then dig deeper.

Monica Millares: So it's access to funding.

hen it comes to fundraising? [: 00:33:00

Delphine Emenyonu: I would say that there's definitely a lot of access to advice. I if I was to scale the number of advice and I will tell you, it's there.

People are willing to give me the best advice and I'd be very fortunate in terms of the mentors and things like that. But if I'm very honest and frank, I've reached that limit of, okay, the advice is very useful, but now I need access to the finance or in the words I, say. The check to actually make this a reality.

say we want to wait a little [: 00:34:00

Once you get to the next traction and I'm thinking we need the funding to get to that next traction and stuff. So I would say for me, it's definitely challenging. We've had a lot of stop starts. If I'm honest when it comes to funding so I would say for me, a lot of advice and I want to say thank you for all the advice.

It's very valuable, but I think if we really want to see a difference, the reality is that we need to be confident in actually giving the checks because I think that puts us in a better position to actually execute. Yes. And

Monica Millares: I'm going to challenge that as well, because we know only 2 percent of BC funding is going to women.

omen can do to up their game [: 00:35:00

Ensure that there is less of a bias because I don't know. I'm like 2 sided. Part of me says is it because 2 percent of the funding goes to women because there's way less women trying to start companies and or. Maybe the quality of the products that they are offering is not as appealing as the ones from their male counterparts.

And then from a VC perspective, they're they're a complex world on its own. So yeah, I'm very curious to understand your thoughts.

Delphine Emenyonu: I think we don't need to up our game, right? We're, already we're doing great. I don't think it's a matter of us upping our game. I think it's actually the other side, that they need to up their game and actually be more comfortable.

et about all of that. We can [: 00:36:00

The question really is more around her ability to empower the village to execute, I would say. So I don't think it's about us being a woman. I think they should need to think about actually how have you created a village to execute? Because I think that's really the most important thing.

You talk about the 2%, right? I'm a fan of quotas. I think Let, if the visa community is extremely serious about increasing that, because that 2 percent number has been thrown around, let's be honest, for years now. So it shows you that number has not really changed. So if the visa community is really focused about actually, Increasing more funding within female founders and things like that.

urself a target. Say that VC [: 00:37:00

But the reality is that we know that not all of them will succeed. So for me, not only do you show the 10%, but also show the success level, because from what I do see is that a lot of women founders and everything, because of the hurdles, they tend to actually be more successful when you look at it from that ratio perspective.

're then thinking I can't do [: 00:38:00

By actually showing the result, it would then hopefully empower more women to say, actually, I think I can do this because there are people that have done this previously.

Monica Millares: I like that as a summary that it's hey, it's practical action, set a target, measure the target, measure the impact of the results of achieving that target, and then showcase.

The success story so that then we can empower others and then coming back full circle to the beginning of the, story, beginning of the podcast community, then that tells us like, Hey, that's how we're having impact to the community as such. Oh, it's been a fantastic conversation, Delphine.

Where can we find more about you and Scribe?

app is available in the UK, [: 00:39:00

Give their users access to our tool, which we know it saves them time and money. But at the moment you can find us on Google and on app stores.

Monica Millares: Amazing. And then before we go, if you were to change one thing in the industry that made the lives of customers, staff, and shareholders better, what would you

Delphine Emenyonu: change?

ommunity our role is really, [: 00:40:00

to whether you like it or not, fraud. And it doesn't really matter how many tools you're using, whether you're using liveness checks, whether you're using documentation and things like that. The reality here is that there's a lot of fraud. Now one thing I would like within the ecosystem is a lot of these fraud stars they didn't just wake up today.

They've been there, and other financial institutions have experienced them. So for me, what would be great is that as a collective, if we could potentially have like a system that actually knows who, because every individual organization knows who they are, but because we're so siloed, the customer will go from company A and be bad.

f we're collectively working [: 00:41:00

That they put on staff is horrendous, right? And if you don't have the training to make sure your staff has been respectful, but at the same time being thorough, it can be very demoralizing. So I think for me, I would say really, it's more around how can we as a think tech community come together to really combat fraud?

cause reality is that you're [: 00:42:00

But within the fintech community, because it's that constant challenge of actually constantly growing, we do know that fraud actually is something that fuels growth. But how can we prevent it and ensure that one, the kind of growth you experience is real customer growth. But at the same time, you're creating like a better and healthier ecosystem when it comes to fintech.

So for me, That is my number one ask. I'm sure other people have different asks, but really, if we can work together to combat and reduce fraud, that for me will be a big win.

Monica Millares: I think that's a big problem to solve as an industry. Yes, it

Delphine Emenyonu: is. But it's possible if, we can come together. I think one of the examples are, bureaus, right?

nd money. If I'm going to go [: 00:43:00

Because don't get me wrong, the finance institution still has their what's it called, policy. That... It's so powerful. And I'm thinking we need like some type of fraud bureau. So whereby when you onboarding customers, you have access to that fraud bureau. So whereby you check, forget about liveness check and things that it can make that up, but you check that fraud bureau to decide actually, do you want to onboard that customer based on the information that we know?

Is that readily available?

Monica Millares: Awesome. Nice. There's a lot to do to fight fraud. It's been an absolute pleasure having you in the show. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you everyone. See you next week. Ciao. Ciao.